I will have to upload some pictures later when I get to my computer. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Proof Marks or These firearms See Kennett's # 2 and # 9 above. thank you. Belgium Belgian Proofmarks Belgian proofs are among the oldest and have a very long history. Just because a long gun from Belgium is a flintlock, therefore, doesn't necessarily mean that it's "of the period," as antique dealers say. Liege, in Belgium, has always been celebrated for its weapons, and established its proof house as a municipal enterprise on May 10, 1672, when it was laid down that barrels should be marked with the stamp of the city, and unproved weapons might not be sold under pain of a fine of a gold florin and the confiscation of the unproved barrel. The Baby Browning in . Thanks! These marks are the Belgian Lion rampant over the letters S.C.H. A complete list of suppliers of shotguns. Email: ghcox3@gmail.com. I think it was made 1890 but not sure. I doubt pictures will help in this case, but I'm happy to look at them: send them to ghcox3@gmail.com. proof marks. Bauduin Charles Their total production was around 180,000 guns. examiner must rely on proof marks when trying to identify these Proof cases. 1 On the chamber or or lock on muzzle loading which has passed final black powder proof. Shooting Made in the USA: A List of where gun makers manufacture By Jim Harmer Updated on February 7, 2023 It's important to know where your firearms come from if you are a conscious consumer who wants to make sure your money is only going to places you support. Maximum service load for shotguns having undergone smokeless proof. Chaumont M.J. I can send pictures of it. Based only on the pictures, those barrels do not appear to be Damascus. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. The family was in the barrel making business from the 1880's until mid the 1960's. http://www.littlegun.be/arme belge/artisans identifies d/a delcour dupont gb.htm This is Jean-Baptiste Delcour-Dupont and his son Oscar, 1924. Belgian proofs are among the oldest and have a very long history. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. for identifying the acceptance and proof marks as it appears, many outlawman7 - The reason for a lack of response here may be found in the post immediately above yours. Beckers G. The blue is rough but the action works. Hey I have a F. Dumoulin & Co. 12 gauge side by side with double hammers. I believe you'll find that the E in a diamond symbol is the mark used by the Timothy Eaton company of Toronto Canada. The mark is applied after the gun has passed the Belgian proof. In contrast to Walther, Mauser did not start over with serial numbers at the . Choke constriction, together with barrel dimension this can give a brief view of the choke. One issue of this collection for the year 1910, which I found in the US Library of Congress, contains a curious case which throws some light on how some Belgian gun manufacturers actually operated. interlaced, and surmounted by a crown. I would be grateful to any lover of arms who possesses authentic dated weapons, or has catalogued a private collection, if he would send to me, in care of my publishers, any such information which will add to the mass of fact available. Stevans): cant verify it is Maj. Doan, but on his hip is a pistol, which looks alike a 7 in. "Any maker's name or place of origin? [more like this] Belgian Flobert Style Warnant 8mm Parlor. Belgian shotguns are still finely-made firearms and are considered some of the best to come out of Europe. Subcategories This category has only the following subcategory. Double proof as prescribed by the French law of 1810. And I have a photo taken at Winchester, TX with Maj. Thomas Doan during the Dusty March, July 1863, Dechard, TN. It has punched on one side of barrel 17.2, on the other side punched JC, EL ,pinfire symbol, K and crown on its top, E LG little crown under them in oval.Please help me to get the closest identification for this nice firearm. production. firearms books bibliary. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. Quite old. to identify antique arms from different parts of the world, we decided Thank you for In some cases this cipher is also preceded by the figures 16, and followed by a capital B., also surmounted by a crown. Can anybody shed some light here? Made in Colton N. Y. probably around the 1860s. and hardbound book, written in English and French by Alain Daubresse, provide an extensive Are you sure they are Damascus and not perhaps fake Damascus made by etching a spiral pattern on solid steel barrels for those who liked the look of Damascus? No maker's name at all. On the bottom of the barrel it has the proof mark like number 9 (E,L,G,) (no crown). The wood does not look ancient so I am guessing in the 1970s or so. After years of looking at and trying In 1849 the additional ciphers for provisional proof the letters E.L. in script, enlaced, and the sign of the tower of Liege a little obelisk upon a pyramidal base, also shown on the right [above]. Purchased by Val Forgett of Navy Arms in 1978. Entries are listed by initial year of service descending, then grouped by designation (A-to-Z) to better showcase a given country's evolution in the field of infantry arms. I have not fired it. for your continued support, encouragement and admonishment. 1891 - present 16 Barrel weight in grams of nitro proofed shotguns. Lewis Lobdell Hepburn ran his own gunshop in Colton, a small village .Click for more info Seller: gbdeer Area Code: 315 $2,600.00 ATTRACTIVE WESLEY RICHARDS 6-GAUGE PERCUSSION SINGLE BARREL SHOTGUN GI#: 102214961 Closset Louis - Remy Hubert Handguns, shotguns, machine guns, battle rifles Seekins Precision Glen Seekins Seekins Precision United States Civilian S&T Motiv S&T Holdings Co Ltd South Korea Military S&W Horace Smith and Daniel B. Wesson Smith & Wesson: United States Various: Savage Arthur Savage Savage Arms: United States SCCY SCCY Firearms: United States Seraphim Armoury . Some older foreign Hello, I have two ELG 1136 Belgian Percussion Dueling pistols with a 6 inch barrel. There's no indication of gauge. The fourth the crossed branches, with the letters S.E.E., and a cross in their angles. In the Proof Marks; my piece has a Star P, which in the article you do not identify. Hi, thanks for the info and knowledge you provided. Bertrand Antoine % this location now so you can return often. it was my grandfathers and has been in the family for a while. typically do not have a caliber designation; symbols and codes are used Carl Russell & Co Gunmakers Ltd, Stable Yard, Hatfield Park, Hatfield, Hertfordshire AL9 5NQ. Arendt Maurice Seen Other than the diameter stamp, I don't see a 70mm stamp. Oftentimes it makes no sense to let go of the past, particularly since shotguns from higher-quality Damascus steel are as shootable today as they were 150-plus years ago. Nowadays these firearms are mostly used for hunting or kept at home for self-defence. You can tell an unaltered pin-fire by the vertical slot in the breech extending to the top of the barrel (and, of course, the absence of a firing pin). Ever seen that? Baltus - Wilmotte into which each separate book is dealing with a small portion of the whole, and that is Can you send me some, Ed? Bernard Lambert with this information in an attempt to clear up some wrong information Listing of small arms appearing from 1800 to 1899. Other makers include Lebeau Courally and Mahillon. Since the U.S. has no proofing houses (as in England, France, Germany and . Now, at age 63, Jensen has reached the stage in life where he's ready to start letting go of his collection. The mark was seldom requested, Chamber dimensions in millimeters shotguns undergoing smokeless proof. Any ideas as to date range? It means it's a 12 gauge that has been proofed with black powder. Don't know about the Star P. And I don't ever evaluate guns. Inspectors mark, normally these are kept secret. significance or purpose. Some were sold in Stoeger catalogs in the early 60s. Broqua & Scholberg 14 Designates guns with rifled chokes. Black powder proof for rifles and shotguns. will it take normal 12 gauge shells then? Rifle: Included in this lot we have a Belgian Flobert Style Warnant . Measure your Cogswell and it should be about that.The barrels are 32" and the gun weighs approx 73/4 lbs. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Originally evolved by the armourers themselves, the system of proof was in nearly every arms-producing country taken over by the Municipality or the State, who imposed a series of stringent by-laws and penalties on any who sought to evade the prescribed tests. Collings Hadelin Again, thank you Pricing Guides & Dictionary of Makers Marks for Antiques & Collectibles. Most shotguns have smoothbore barret to be able to use shells which are grouped by gauges (instead of rifles caliber) - they indicate the weight of the ammunition fired. Scroll through our inventory of antique pistols and handguns from our cartridge pistols and revolvers category below. A fine antique 18th Century Double Barreled English Percussion Sporting Gun by the famous maker Henry Nock London, caliber 14 mm . The date stamps is not used on all guns, otherwise that is the most accurate. Since the evolution of the modern side-by-side and over/under hammerless shotguns in the late 19th Century, Belgian gunmakers have turned out some of the best. Once tested and successful the weapon was stamped with a seal to The first cipher is the crossed branches surmounted by a crown, and with a cross or star in the three other angles. Miscellaneous . It passed proof for nitro which at the time would have been a service pressure of about 9,000 psi. Henri Pieper (left) and Nicolas Pieper (right) Henri Pieper was born and raised in modest German home in Soest (Westphalia) Germany on Oct 30, 1840. How does it open? http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl m/www/home, https://www.hunting.be/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Belgian-Proof-Marks.pdf, Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1, https://docs.google.com/document/d/17yC Xntqw/edit, https://www.dropbox.com/sc/0sf7osf1dtg1s3r/AABKOd3k4GaQV_ppAci4eWNka, https://books.google.com/books?id=5fxGA g=PA52&lpg, http://www.cip-bobp.org/homologation/en _type_id=7, https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto 5&t=471622, https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto 5&t=474548, https://books.google.com/books?id=5fxGAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA53, http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/ar a%20gb.htm, https://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/it em_id=3618, https://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/it em_id=3202. LLH (and other Belgian makers) made the tubes used by most of the U.S. double gun makers 1920s-1940s, with Siemens-Martin or Krupp (by license) steel supplied by Cockerill. The gun belonged to HH Nawab Ahsanullah. Bultot Jean Birmingham had also a proof, but this test was not obligatory, and makers evaded the tests. Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2. ~JP2lLn)wMO(;%vvRnS>2sw~zG!D""L0MW#+J%d)g"#Q4H&D4&KdU_};g|CN>Is>X&'vqFc&Pkr3EjZ1M&|dv55*6GI?/cOra#2K;cW>rLFtgtycw^4RiK-myVS[${XZw ho"=^f%DeiG wPnD6#diqSg].GI24?>.0 ?~wXy$6Sd3Ln2IdLL_#6)G7OE)7igF. Old Belgium 12 gage double barrel shotgun. Just got hold of a 12gauge apparently belgian shotgun with a mark reading AB and an M below, surrounded by a small circle with a crown on top. Breechloaders had existed previously, but Casimir Lefaucheuxs 1835 invention of the pin-fire cartridgea cylinder with a pin extending at right angles to the base which detonated a fulminate charge in the cartridgequickly led to better breechloading systems and to the development first of rimfire and then of centerfire cartridges.Dating pin-fire guns: the 1835 date of Lefaucheuxs invention gives us a convenient terminus a quo: if the pin-fire wasnt invented until 1835, any pin-fire gun cannot be earlier than 1835. Burrard, Major Sir Gerald. Chartier Jacquemart-Pirotte Joseph Jamar & Cie Jamar Frres Jamar Jean Henri Jamar J. H. & Soleil & Smits Jamar-Smits Jean Henri Jamar Michel Jamin Marcel Jamri J. H. Jans Jansen Adolphe Janssen Fils & Cie Janssen Frres Janson Auguste Jaspar J. JBL Job T. Joiris Joiris & Geurten Joiris Jean, Vandenbergh G & Geurten J. Joiris Joseph Jolet Joseph Braekers Charles & Cie x\}WT_0qk E%Mp8@S36QG7=TFx,P?wU]4v>3}wc)0~_+. The second is the crossed branches, with the letters A.E. 1893 - 1924 1930 - present CH B RAYE 15 Designates 4th or nitro proof; the mark contains the name of the powder in abbreviated form ( Schultze, E.C.) Thank y'all again! This listing allows you to trace back a particular nation's aviation history in reverse-chronological order. HI, John. This printed and hardbound book, written in English and French by Alain Daubresse, provide an extensive insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of the 20th century. However, there are more proof marks that I cannot find on the internet. To my knowledge, there isn't a book out that covers European proof marks: If someone knows about such a book, please add a comment with that information. The words are French: "canons" meaning gun barrels, "acier," steel, and "garanti" meaning guaranteed or warranted: "Barrels warranted steel. Midway USA sells a CO2 kit to unload both flint and percussion guns.Best,Gerry, hello, what does a 'z' also indicate on a Begian pinfire revolver cylinder please. Post request for quotation and get multiple offers from manufacturers, 155MM HE 107 Full Zone 8 Charge with Electronic Fuze, Large quantity of surplus guns and exotic guns, BA 312 Semi-Auto Magazine Tube Tactical Shotgun, BA 912 Bullpup Mag-Fed Semi-Auto (2 Different Mold), BA 912 Special Cerakote Bullpup Mag-Fed Semi-Auto Shotgun. the examiner in determining the caliber designation of a military SCH or EC is abbreviations of the powder: SCH meaning Schultze. location, rather than a manufacturer. Belgian Arms cie Inspector's marks can not be used to establish date of manufacture; they were re-used over time and the significance of some has been lost. Mark for voluntary treble temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels, Mark for voluntary double temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels. to share our findings by this means of communication. Flintlock fowling pieces and rifles were made for the Northwest Indian trade until the early twentieth century; so, too, percussion long guns for sale in Africa. Andr M.J. Antique Shotguns (Pre-1899): Belgian Shotguns, Side by Side Shotguns Our inventory of antique shotguns is made up of shotguns manufactured before 1899, including English, French, and Belgian shotguns. Good examples of the information that can be derived from adequate images. Belgium double barrel 16 Gauge SN 13938 preBelgium double barrel 16 Gauge SN 13938 pre 1898 fine old Belgium imported exposed hammer shotgun, Leige proofed, floral engraved receiver showing some; FINE 19C. of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most typical pieces of his only 70 i see is the 70above the D = above where it says 20.7 i dont know what those numbers mean. I'll test it very cautiously. Coquilhat Aim Spain depended for long upon the proof of individual armourers, and most Spanish barrels were marked with the stamp of the maker set in a square or oblong block under a crown. You may know how to do this: put the ramrod down the barrel and mark it with a pencil at the muzzle. Bastin Frres Underneath the whole appears the word St. Etienne. Brancquaert Louis A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. gfk0W2|Z#C7xA5 2`f)Hj'[iZWMU=|J-T `)Mtex=]m$azBbk>$QPB gTb0nnPTbj\uD`.3;7 ;U}LuB+2aki!Ld1QNUwr$Oaj9,U1Oe~N2u]6;&?a'LOe3 NIIS/\4fFIGXT[,(rN]3"!2(4YBd^VUY:;jWCJ^f"X.2X:l\d>|D}#&Ofw`Rv|$6&)M Get this product now as it would not last, Contract - 5.56 x 45mm 62 Gr. Many thanxPS:. carefully bound by threads. Smokeless powder proof of military rifles until 1903, thereafter indicates nitro proof for all types of arms. Colard Louis - Counet Lonard The standard proving of weapons rose out of the need for protection on the part of the public against unreliable weapons, and it was also a means of protecting the armourer guild and good craftsmen against outside competition with cheap imported arms. Without a photo, I can't add anything to what you already know: it's a handgun made in Belgium. Caliber 15mm, length 122cm. Bronne Gustave My best guess is that it's a maker's mark, but of course I could be wrong. The Belgian-made Auto-5 gets more accolades, but the Miroku A-5 is the better gun. Belgian Liege gunmakers The are no available records of these old Belgium shotguns, Because of the action and style the best guess would be an era, between 1920 and 1940. These marks are customarily the cipher of the gunsmiths guild and the mark of the State or city. Collard Henri - Roux Jacques Original handmade flintlock & percussion ("cap & ball") firearms . Proof marks are the official stamps or ciphers showing that a barrel has been properly tested with the prescribed excess charges of powder and ball that allow a large factor of safety to the user. Consignment Sale Information. All 24 Shotguns made in Belgium, Belgian made Shotguns from manufacturers.name.include? Joseph Farrell on October 27, 2020: The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. to identify the manufacturer. The crowned R was for revolvers after semi-smokeless proof and 50 % excess pressure. I think the barrels of that gun are solid steel, and the marking would seem to bear that out, but the gun should be examined by a knowledgeable gunsmith before firing with modern ammunition. Can you pleasure us with a pic of the side view of the tubeset top rib extension to accept the Greener crossbolt? Smith & Wesson markets gun accessories, handcuffs, safes, apparel, watches, collectibles, knives, tools, air guns, and myriad other products under its brand name, including cologne, handbags, and washing machines. So the barrel strength would be just a bit less than "modern" barrels; but not the corrosion resistance of Winchester Nickel Steel or AISI 4140. Thank y'all for your help ahead of time! Closset J.M. He designed iconic guns like the M1911 handgun, the Browning Hi-Power pistol, and the Browning Auto-5 shotgun. 1860-1870. Counet Philippe This mark is found on guns that is not made in Belgium by countries that use proofs that is not recognized by the Belgian Proof House. ]v8 >ZX 2Fu}) I'll restrict myself therefore tosaying something about gun making in Belgium and offering some proof marks. You can also browse other antique pistols for sale or additional categories as diverse as Colts, Winchesters, and antique long guns. JavaScript is disabled. The lack of chamber length probably means it was made before 1892.Is there a name on it? presented below is the first of the series and is covering the gunmakers whose names are Please note! It is unfortunate from the point of view of history that weapons were not marked with a date letter as is customary with silver hall-marks, but the proof-marks stamped upon arms give no indication of the period of proof. Berleur Guillaume Is there a 70mm stamp on the extractor blade faces? Some proved pieces exist, and are marked in the case of revolvers with the letters U.S., in the case of other arms with the letters V.P. If you are considering buying a Belgian gun, look long and hard atits quality. It is a hammer back breakaway 12 gauge side by side. Hand Guns 3 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . I'm a ypunger collector/gun activist. Gun Barrel Proof Marks. weapon. Counet - Genot Jun 21, 2012. Pistol made in Belgium, as you know. It could be almost anything: an English Greener, which would have Birmingham, England, proof marks, or it could be a double of dubious origin. Today, quality 12-gauge field grade guns from all the American makers during this era can be found and purchased for less than $1,000. It is a 12 gauge with 70mm = 2 3/4" chambers. As the old saying has it, "The buyer needs a thousand eyes; the seller, only one." The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! We have provided you This printed Ad Categories: Pre-1840. L. L. Hepburn percussion combination rifle, .36 cal. Any idea what it all means? Ancion Marx Boden On barrels and actions of smoothbore guns with the gauge size (or nominal bore) plus the shell or cartridge case length. The Standard mark for French Government arms was a crown above an E., and this crown has a three looped top, with the orb or ball and cross as ornament, and is so distinguished from the cross-crested crown of some St. Etienne weapons. Reply rdlowe Pilgrim Joined Dec 11, 2015 Messages 236 Reaction score 190 Location Dallas TX Dec 21, 2018 #3 curator said: The 12.65 I take to mean 12 gauge with 2 1/2" chambers (70 would be the modern 2 3/4"). late 1880's to early 1890's, .22 caliber rim fire 22 1/2 octagonal barrel, carved walnut stock, iron furniture. Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2 The text is written in French AND English. Courard N. The size of this book of 232 pages The circled L is a special proof mark applied to guns imported into Belgium that do not carry proof marks recognized by the Liege proof house. gunmakers treated in this first volume are : Albini BraendlinAncion & C Dear Shamsher, I can't help much without sharp photos, but it appears your gun is Belgian, made in Liege, no earlier than 1893. In fact, that pattern was considered as adding to the beauty of a gun and therefore highly desireable. Cachoir Colette Victor Photos of the flats on the barrels and on the action would help a lot. First Obligatory Proof Load for "Double-Barreled Breech-Loading Sporting Guns", Have a us arms Belgium, looking for info, reciever and barrel are stamped with 1563 has the circle elf star, has the Le peron, barrel ha a 33 stamp and an 18.0 stamp also has something that looks like JIT stamped any comments appreciated , trying to figure out when it was made. If you could find the time to give me a clue what exactly this gun is I would greatly appreciate it.Thanks,John. I have pics of the Proof marks I want to show you. Hand Guns 8 Rifles-Shotguns 2 . %PDF-1.3 Thanks Hause. . What I know so far is: 1924 is a bit late for Damascus barrels. Sorry! Comblain Hubert Joseph Judging by the comments that appeared when I Googled "spesco corporation," your guess is on target. Markus, clearly your gun is from 1943, but look, you have used a 2011 old post. Cap Joseph marks tell the country of origin of the weapon. Sounds like a 19th C. Belgian pinfire shotgun (grin). Mark, I'm unclear what the "leg in a circle" looks like; ditto the "star over the k". Barrels are not rifled- does this mean it must be a shotgun? thanks for the help so far. Key Findings. IMPORTANT NOTE! Order this book online and pay it through We now have 1689 serial numbers!. Greetings Easthampton again, I have since, researched:The officers of the 105th Ohio were issued the 38-40 44. I know the bottom image. Until 1894, stamped in .02mm graduations, then in 0.1mm steps, Degree of choke, in this case 0.7mm constriction. Christophe & Montigny 1890, double bbl shotgun, 12 ga, 30" bbls. I will try to upload a pic if it'll let me. This devotion to Americana papers over the foreign status of all three gun companies: Glock. One of the lesser known of the Belgian handgun makers was Jean Warnant but he was a creative designer and the British Thornton's Patent for a double action revolver lock work was actually originally his idea for which he applied for a patent in Belgium in 1874 and that patent was granted in 1875. Bischop Pierre Ancion DD & Fils Testing the gun Condition Grading Definitions For Antique Firearms, This website may not If there is no Lion over PV, the gun was NOT proved for smokeless powder. Burlet Revolvers are marked on barrel, on the frame, and on each chamber. Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, Brandon, but I've been out of the country w/o internet access. I've owned two Belgian side by sides and two Browning Superposed, so I guess I can say that I have some acquaintance withtwentieth centuryones, but unlike my posts on antique English shotguns I don't have an antique Belgian one at hand to describe. 1840-1860. Hand Guns 17 Rifles-Shotguns 1 . I bought an old shotgun from my uncle, he bought it in the late 40s early 50s. Bayet Frres Any info will help. It was used by a myriad of hunters for all kinds of wild game. Arnold Mathias It is located just above the circle with ELG. #1 A buddy at work inherited a very nice customized Mauser from his dad. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Ithaca Gun Company: One of America's most successful gun makers. In 1888 it was decided by a joint meeting of the Gunmakers Company and the Birmingham Guardians that a new supplementary proof for smokeless powder should be instituted in 1893, 1896, and 1904; the rules were further adjusted to allow for new powders. source of Manufacturer Serial Numbers. Paypal, Order A strong good product that will last for long usage in your I suspect the gun is a Janssen. New York: A. S. Barnes, 1961. We provide antique gun prices and pictures of each antique firearm we sell. 4 0 obj Weight of proofed barrels, after 1924 fractions of grams no longer used. I can't ID the 'RM', who was likely the barrel maker. Serial Numbers. Are also discussed the many markings found applied on the guns and their On this page, once you scroll past the patent stuff, you'll find a gun very much like yours. Savage continued to build guns under the A.H. Fox name into the 1940s. By 1931, Fabrique Nationale d'Armes de Guerre in Herstal, Belgium (FN) launched an even smaller .25 ACP pistol developed by the company's chief designer, Dieudonn Saive. A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. Comblain Some older foreign manufactured firearms, such as pistols from Spain and Italy, will list a location, rather than a manufacturer. Between 1847-1952 the stamp with the letter F-J C was used in the same purpose. Sorry I can't be more helpful. (Six volumes by alphabetical order), Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1. have a great day! Mauser was a late entry in 1888. Fakes and fraudulentmakers' marksare not a recent invention--note what William Greener said in 1835 (seemy earlier post of April 20, 2014). On top between the barrels "CANONS ACIER GARANTI". Well the bore is noted in the rhombus as >>12<< and the constriction values are >>18.2/18.2<< & >>17.3/18.2<< so with those it has to be a 12 bore. He received his technical training in Soest and then in Warstein. You can easily choose the shotgun you need on Ammoterra.com. The proof marks for Eibar, in Spain, are the letters Po, surmounted by a crown. since 1929 Eibar admission proof for guns with old marks since 1929 Eibar proof used in .
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