Lu 17:37 G4983 body, flesh; the body of the Church. Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door. Jesus said other things to the disciples about the Church which they could not understand but which later became quite evident to them. But that does not in itself mean that Jesus did not speak about the Rapture of the Church. Israel were the sheep in the fold but the Church was a future flock of Jews and Gentiles, all one in Christ. The carcase is Christ, or the body of Christ; the eagles are the saints, or true Christians; these, whatever happens, will, with keen spiritual sight, always be able to discern Christ and his body, and to flock thereto. shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 37 "Where, Lord?" they asked. How do I align things in the following tabular environment? And the rest were slain by the sword that came from the mouth of him who was sitting on the horse, and all the birds were gorged with their flesh. Now if we are to interpret this passage to mean that one is taken and judged but the other is left to be blessed in the kingdom then we have to attribute the very opposite meaning to the words! About UsContact UsPrayer RequestsPrivacy Policy, Latest AnswersBible LessonsBibleAsk LIVEOnline Bible. Come quickly, Lord Jesus! The words quoted in Luke 17 come after the Lord had answered the Pharisees question about the timing of the Kingdom of God. Let both grow together until the harvest, and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, "Gather the weeds FIRST and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn. This was not an answer given in the previous discussion of this question; I basically agree with your conclusion-there is no other way of interpreting 'eagle' except as a bird of prey, consequently, those 'taken' by the eagles are where eagles go to devour their flesh-certainly no picture of anything that looks like heaven. Check your inbox or spam folder to confirm your subscription. 22 He said to the disciples, "The days will come when you will yearn to see one of the days of the Son of Man, . them, Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered and what I should speak. Those who were taken were those who remained in the city and were taken by the Roman army. They would be taken somewhere but Where? (10) But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house And they Jesus said: And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold (Israel): them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one flock (Jew and Gentile in the Church), and one shepherd (Christ the head of the Church) (John 10:16). Jesus: being symbolised at the dead copse, point of interest, (,,not meaning/saying, He's a dead Copse) bear them now. 37 For as the days of That is, Ezekiel 39 and Revelation 19 also appear to be parallel as apparent eschatological events of predictive prophecy, since both chapters also mention the birds of prey devouring those judged on earth at that time. See texts below. The birds come to pluck out their eyes as they eat their carcasses: [Isa 5:25 NKJV] 25 Therefore the anger of the LORD is aroused against His people; He has stretched out His hand against them And stricken them, And the hills trembled. We are to keep His sacrifice in the presence of their persecutions by not returning evil for their evil. 52:49. Are kill () and destroy () synonyms? Nevertheless it is of the utmost importance to remember that both passages before us are addressed to Israel. There is no rapture here. the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, righteousness, and of judgment: (9) Of sin, because they believe not This chart shows the flow of events as: 1) The Antichrist at Point 1. world. Therefore the Disciples could not have understood that Jesus might be speaking about the Rapture of the Church. In each case of separation, the ones taken were saved and the ones left were the ones destroyed. shalt be condemned. Commentators have noted that Jesus employed a proverbial saying to reply to his disciples' question, "Where, Lord?" (Luke 17:37a); however, they differ on what the proverb means in this context. The New International Version (NIV) has avoided the word men and so translates the passage with people. Here is the verse, I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and. The message is destruction. The people "taken" - These are Christians who are tracked down after Christianity is outlawed and arrested. The ones who are taken are destroyed, just like the flood story of Noah, the flood came and took them all away, Matthew 24: 39. This chart shows the flow of events as: 1) The Antichrist at Point 1. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Biblical Hermeneutics Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for professors, theologians, and those interested in exegetical analysis of biblical texts. Is the Goat and Sheep judgment also the White Throne judgment? And the ones left were the ones destroyed by fire. Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. The point is that people were occupied with activities and were not aware or willing to believe Noah, and that will happen to the last generation before Christ returns. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left. Therefore, they are not describing the rapture. Jesus was not speaking to Church-age disciples but to Old Testament saints who understood the Old Covenant but had no knowledge of the New Covenant apart from what Jesus told them. And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together. (Matthew 24:28). It is a compound word composed of a preposition para meaning near and a verb, lambano meaning I receive. It doesn't matter if it is a raven or an eagle! You have to change eagles into vultures and the body into a carcass. To make things worse the NET Bible has added the word "dead" which is not in the Greek text. Now in Luke 17:33 Jesus says "Whosoever shall seek to gain his life shall lose it: but whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it", In other words the people "taken" are believers (like Lot's wife) who unfortunately are seeking to preserve their life by sadly being attached like Lot's wife was to her lifestyle in Sodom. or 'There!' wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his Matthew 24:37-39 (NASB). (15) And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, The people "left behind" - These are non Christians. Jesus' Coming Will Be Divisive In Its Effect (Luke 17:34-36) Jesus' Coming Will Be Permanent In Its Fatality (Luke 17:37. Luke 17:34 describes what will happen after the judgment. First, this teaching does not align with the separation of the sheep from the goats in Matthew 25:31-46. Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together., The eagles are farsighted birds , spiritually far sighted individuals are likened to eagles and will be taken along "for salvation" and will gather together where the body is," to the Spiritual Wedding Feast prepared by the King - "God." Two shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Revelation 19:21 KJV (21) And the remnant were slain with the sword D) A Literal 1000-Year Millennium The Bible describes a future, Mark 13, Luke 17:20 - 37 and Matthew 24-25 are the Words of Jesus giving His Olivet Discourse. Those whom Jesus said would be left would be those who heeded the warning and fled to the mountains. The following accounts in Matthew and Luke are the primary scriptures used to teach the idea of a secret rapture. They will rise like eagles ascending on the hot air draft until we disappear from sight through the door of heaven forever with the Lord! Some use Luke 17:34-36 to teach the secret rapture belief but to understand the complete picture of this passage, we need to read the verses before and after. (30) Hereafter Thats what modern versions have done but the Greek does not allow it! 2) The Great Tribulation at Point 3. If we also go away from them, then the Comforter shall come unto us. Luke 17:34 Context Crossref Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. But Luke 17:35 is much more clear. Matthew 24:40-41 (NASB) Event After the Second Coming of Christ At the very same moment the head of the Revived Roman Empire will sign a 7 year peace treaty and Jews will be able to rebuild their temple. Luke 17:34-37 (NIV84) 34 "I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. I realized the disciples were asking where the taken where taken (in Luke 17:37), so then Jesus answer made sense literally: vultures will eat the carcasses of people (the wicked) who die. de Lectis Veter. A remnant will survive. Thank you for your response! This will "torment" them. Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together (Luke17:37). Matthew 24 is answering a question by Jewish Disciples who asked about the end of the age and the second coming of Christ and some have assumed that the Rapture is not relevant in that context. When Luke 17:34 says, "one will be taken and the other left," the words "one" and "other" are both masculine. They can rise to 10,000 feet almost out of sight. Saints: being, the Vultures will gather! But, when asked where are those who are taken go, He cryptically says, "Where the body is, there the eagles will be gathered.". Points 10 and 11 (Luke 17:34-35) say that "one will be taken and the other left" and this is the Rapture. For those who believe that Luke 17:34-36 is not speaking of the rapture but of the judgment after Christ's Second Coming and that those taken are the wicked, I must point out a few things and conclude with a determining factor. Noah were, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. Further, Jesus teaches that the ones left will be destroyed completely not have seven years of another chance to repent as the secret rapture belief teaches. out of the way. This means that both Luke 17:30-35 and Matthew 24:37-41 are events that will occur after the second coming of Christ. The two great signs to Israel will be the sudden, global disappearance of indiviuals which we know to be the Church and the signing of a seven year covenant with Antichrist. As Lot was taken out of Sodom before its destruction, we who will believe in Him also are to be taken from among the unbelievers. Is it possible to create a concave light? They came and went: [Act 3:24-25 YLT] 24 and also all the prophets from Samuel and those following in order, as many as spake, did also foretell of these days. Here is Luke 17:30-33, It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man is revealed. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that (32) Remember Lot's wife. Nevertheless He gave the Disciples three signs that would indicate when the Kingdom would be established. If any man hear His Word and believes (rejecting what one hears and does not receive it) not shall be judged by the Word of God that He has spoken. Matthew 24:40-41; Luke 17:26-30, 34-36 housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it Who is being taken in Matthew 24:40-41? One will be taken and the other left. things to come. on me; (10) Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. 144x times in KJV sma is body not corps. Two prophets will be located at Jerusalem and urge the construction of the Temple. Luke 17 - Duty, Thankfulness and the Kingdom A. Forgiveness, faith and duty. We have 3 groups of people here. Sadly, this verse has been used to support the secret rapture belief. Now when the Lord gave the Disciples this sign in Luke chapter 17 they understood that Jesus was talking about the last days and that some people would suddenly disappear but they didnt know anything about the Rapture and the logical question was asked, Where Lord? i.e. What phrases give people the false idea that there will be a secret rapture? A good man will bring good things out of his heart while an evil heart shall speak a multitude of evil words. On the other hand, Daniel Dahlberg pointed out an alternative translation, e.g., King James Bible: And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? After Jesus said, one would be taken and the other left, the disciples asked where they would be left. This is exactly whats found in Revelation 19:17-18, 21; and Ezekiel 39:4, 17-20. Luke 17:34-36 Some use Luke 17:34-36 to teach the secret rapture belief but to understand the complete picture of this passage, we need to read the verses before and after. Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. John 14:3). " 36 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. If so this might help explain the 1.1 million non-combatants killed in the judgment that fell around 70ad and why Revelation refers to the Jews hiding in the rocks of the hills, wishing that they had died in the war. The Lord will not destroy the righteous with the wicked.so we must depart and follow Jesus out. I was less than satisfied with the Matt. Revelation 14:10 KJV (10) The same shall drink of the wine of the Many will resist what He has to say with a multitude of evil words that will fly out of their mouths into the "air". ", [Jer 16:18 NKJV] 18 "And first I will repay double for their iniquity and their sin, because they have defiled My land; they have filled My inheritance with the carcasses of their detestable and abominable idols.". So I've been dwelling on Luke 17:34-36 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. When it comes, it will be as obvious as the lightning which flashes and lights up the entire sky. By our words shall we be justified and by our words shall we be condemned. One will be taken the other left (Mt 24:40-41). Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. Instructions. (12) And the men said unto that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, Many people use these words to support a concept called the rapture. The "brightness of His presence" = the keeping of His sacrifice (the Lamb) in our lives in the persecution by not returning evil for their evil. Luke 17 provides further powerful proof of the order of gatherings, as if the harmony of several passages so far were not enough. Two women shall be grinding together; the one, Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers. Thank you for contributing. Why did the disciples have so much trouble recognizing Jesus after his resurrection? For all this His anger is not turned away, But His hand [is] stretched out still. It is clear that the "rapture" is for those to be devoured. We must "ARISE" and go away from the company of the "dead"the unbelievers who will hear the revealed Word of Truth and will not believe in it when they do. destroyed all of them 30 it will be like that on the day that the Son We are to leave it all behind for His sake and the good news of our salvation that we hear in the Word of Truth spoken to our hearing ears from Heaven above. Welcome to the forum. One will be taken and the other left. Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy If you feel an answer is not 100% Bible based, then leave a comment, and we'll be sure to review it. Revelation 6:15-17; 2 Thessalonians 2:8; Isaiah 11:4 _____ Rebuttals 12. them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath Luke 17:34 (NKJV). Jesus' word picture of one aspect of the Day of the Lord is gruesome, indeed, but at some point in human history there will be a holocaust of such unimaginable scope and scale that perhaps a third--or more--of the entire population of the world will be decimated (see Revelation 6:7-8 and 9:15-18). And they said (11) And they smote the men that were What does the verse mean? mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not : [Pro 30:17 KJV] 17 The eye [that] mocketh at [his] father, and despiseth to obey [his] mother, the ravens of the valley shall pick it out, and the young eagles shall eat it. Please see, Welcome and thank you for your contribution. (31) In that day, he which shall be upon the [31] [32] [33]IGN deu 8 de 10, dizendo "Atomic Heart uma tentativa altamente imaginativa, inspirada no atompunk, de continuar de onde BioShock parou.." In Luke 17:28-33 what does Jesus mean by "save his life" and "lose his life"? https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2017%3A20-37&version=NET;NKJV. What was the importance of the horns of the altar (Amos 3:14)? The body is the dead body of unbelievers we are to leave behind in order to follow Jesus. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? Luke 17:34 (NASB), I tell you, in that night there will be two men in one bed: the one will be taken and the other will be left. AUSTRALIA. He also expands on this here by saying "Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything. In Lot's case, his wife looked back as she did not want to give up on her life of comfort she had back in Sodom, she was consequently "taken" The fire that destroyed Sodom is another parallel on how God will destroy the world in the end with fire. (35) Two women shall be grinding again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a (36) Two men (Luke 17:34) The day that the Son of Man is revealed seems to be the same day on which destruction comes, the day when one is taken and another left. One commentator states that Nowhere does the Olivet Discourse deal with the Rapture. There are two things that must agree in the interpretation of any passage of Scripture. Luke 17:34-37 ESV - 34 I tell you, in that night there will be two in one bed. (7) For the mystery of iniquity I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of In the book of Daniel 9:26 it states "The end will come like a flood" Here is a parallel that liken the two ends as similar. 04 Mar 2023 00:06:00 Thank God his saints will be taken at some point to their eternal reward (exactly when is a hotly contested point among eschatologists). mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh. Arise, let us go hence.*. together. Two shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. The eagles are the MULTITUDE of the words spoken by the unbelievers as they will persecute those who leave their churches for the Word of Truth when they hear and receive it with joy. In other words, they will experience the glory and not the gory! But the door of our mouths is to remain shut . I believe that the context in Luke is about not being like Lots wife an having one foot in the kingdom and one foot still back in Sodom , you will be left for destruction. If you se vultures you know where the corpses are. pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe. For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. of man is revealed. Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left. Others expound the clause entirely in a mystical sense. Two women will be grinding together: the one will be taken and the other left. As for the "where question," Jesus' apparently cryptic answer is really quite straightforward. The believers that are taken are not to look back (remember Lots wife) to their churches but just leave it all behind. I dont believe that Luke 17 and Matt 24 are parallel passages. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Before the flood, some people were taken and some were left. one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Where will they be taken? c. 15. p. 90, 91. Who is the one taken? It didnt make sense to me so I compared Luke 17 and Matthew 24, looking for similarities and hoping that would shed light on what Jesus meant. away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. So what does it mean that "the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city"? and hath nothing in me.*. And this is in perfect harmony with what the rest of the Bible says on the subject. Here is Jesus' answer to the "when question," which I have paraphrased quite liberally: The day to which you are referring concerns the denouement of the Son of Man on the "Day of the Lord" which the prophets of old predicted. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 38 For as in those John 14:29-31 KJV (29) And now I have told you before it come to Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and 35 There will be two women grinding together. I'll give my take on what I feel this is meaning. Most of the entries in the NAME column of the output from lsof +D /tmp do not begin with /tmp. Luke 17:21. Moreover, his kingdom will be without end. By itself, this might not mean that the two people were men, for Greek (as in most languages) can use male words and pronouns to refer generically to "people" whether they are male or female. What sort of strategies would a medieval military use against a fantasy giant?
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