Remember that you need to have intakes somewhere in line with the engine to function at that altitude. Do plugins for Kerbal Space Program work on unix? probably the easiest place to land in the system as terminal velocity is survivable for a craft less kerman. What's the difference between a power rail and a signal line? Pasted as rich text. This is my current best hi alt plane. its rather flat but its a solid surface. I recommend using a solid rocket booster (or 2 or 5) to you get you the altitude and then launch a small rocket powered plane. As high and fast as you can go without engine flameout: preferably ~2000 m/s at 25-30 km (and yes, that's almost orbital velocity). This is particularly useful for pairs of engines, since this makes it possible to keep the thrust equal when activating the afterburners. AoA built into the wing relative to the plane body is called the angle of incidence, just to help clear up. FAR is supposed to take aspect into account, but I'm not very experienced with it and cannot advice you as to how it works. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Watch out for your SAS if you're running batteries without a jet for a long time. Display as a link instead, All other versions are slower and lower and unstable in turns. A well-designed jet with this engine and with the afterburner lit, flown properly, can momentarily climb to 30,000 m altitude. 20 votes, 21 comments. Pasted as rich text. The Kerbal Space Program subreddit. You can post now and register later. If you upgrade to the panther (or get one on a contract) that engine can get you much higher. As I understand, the OP wanted "the most efficient way to fly", and simply needed a bit of help in realizing that that is a hypersonic, high-altitude, high-performance aircraft which is a RAPIER and a little oxidizer away from being an SSTO spaceplane. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. How can this new ban on drag possibly be considered constitutional? When you are surrounded by plenty of air there will of course be no need to suck in air artificially but the higher you get the less dense the air around you becomes and in order to make sure that your engines have enough oxygen to burn the fuel it needs to suck air in forcefully. Delta wings are able to work better since the lack of lift per square area is compensated by having larger area to provide lift. The most obvious solution is try and optimize your craft for high altitude lift by giving it long wingspan like a U-2 spyplane. Note that KSP planes get one substantial speed benefit that's much more pronounced than IRL aircraft, due to the freakishly small planet sizes: they're actually flying at a large fraction of orbital velocity. How do I install mods for Kerbal Space Program 1.1? i dont know what kind of range youre looking for but i would make a significantly smaller plane. 101 kPa 1 atm Scale Height 5000 m Atmospheric Height 69 077.553 m 1.010-6 atm Minimum Temprature -40.19 C 232.96 K Maximum Temprature 20 C 293.15 K Oxygen Present Yes Contents 1 Kerbin 2 Topography 3 Kerbal Space Center 4 Atmosphere 4.1 The Troposphere 4.2 The Stratosphere 4.3 The Thermosphere 4.4 The Exosphere 5 The Kerbin System 5.1 The Mun By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Approximately 12km up the main engines stop providing enough thrust to maintain the climb, so it's time to switch to rocket mode. Your previous content has been restored. A temple in the desert (6 29 47 S 141 40 3 W) known as Tut-Un Jeb-Ahn, although this name can only be seen when a vessel crashes into it. But since when do Kerbals wait for ideal conditions? Your link has been automatically embedded. Been a while since I've flown stock*, but I've heard that, for maximum efficiency, you want one turbojet for every 7.5 tons, and about four ram intakes for each turbojet. Air Flow + max. I've been finding it difficult to build a jet that can fly over 15km alt. For example, the RAPIER engine doesn't seem as the first choice as the "best" high altitude air-breathing engine but in long-distance and high-altitude challenges it is. Turbojets are so ridiculously efficient that it doesn't really matter. alternatively, combine a liquid fuel rocket into your plane. Your decreased flight time means you probably won't make it to your location. There are two factors to that: how thick the air is, how fast the ship is going. Don't rely on the efficiency indicator! Secondly don't think of engines working better at different altitudes, think of them working better with different air intake quantities. This means that the only thing that decides wheter your engines run efficient is determined by how much thrust they produce (opt. edited 6 yr. ago. If released at a speed of 700 or more m/s and an altitude of 20 or more km, the satellite will achieve orbit with its second stage mostly full, leaving it with approximately 1600 m/s of delta-V -- enough to achieve lunar or interplanetary orbits and, on small bodies, landings. Or try using SRBs instead. If that's all a case of Too Many Words, think of it this way: Suppose you just build a plane the "default" way and don't put any. You could try combining the two. My question is really about controllability. At altitude the nose goes up and down until it goes out of control. They will someday, but they don't now. You are simply running out of atmosphere (i.e. That would argue for going as high as possible, as slow as possible, but apart from drag you also have to fight gravity. All the information you could want to know about science, including the altitudes for each celestial body, and what altitudes a given experiment works on are available at: http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Science. So, to correct " is below crosshairs", what you need to do is to add a little AoA to the wings. I wasn't expecting so many excellent answers! Grichman's answer got me in the right direction. Clear editor. - "In Space High" means your craft is inside the given Sphere of Influence and above the "Space Border" altitude listed in the Celestial Body Multiplier Matrix. Contents 1 Usage 2 Construction 3 Categories 3.1 Airplane 3.2 Seaplane 3.3 Spaceplane 3.4 VTOL 3.5 Glider 3.6 Mothership 4 Operation 4.1 Flight records 5 Notes Usage She has a horrible turn rate and oscillates a couple of thousand meters at cruise, but it's flyable. Whiplash is the engine you would want to use on a plane meant to go 20km. Even up there the plane acts squirrely. 1Altitude requirement 2Orbit 3Speed, range, and altitude 4Flight duration 5Flight profiles 5.1Ballistic missiles 5.2Tourist flights 5.3Scientific experiments 5.4Sub-orbital transportation 6Notable uncrewed sub-orbital spaceflights 7Crewed sub-orbital spaceflights 8Future of crewed sub-orbital spaceflight 9See also 10References Or it can supercruise at three times the speed of an equivalent Wheesley jet (with nearly equal fuel efficiency) at 15,000 m altitude. A full suite of flaps on the trailing edges of the main wings give it exceptional low-speed lift, and small hydroplane steps mounted on each side of the fuselage bottom help lift it out of the water (lowering water drag) during takeoff runs. Once you're at that regime, you should be able to cover huge distances on tiny amounts of fuel. But. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Technically, any rocket engine is also a jet engine as it forms a high-speed jet of reaction mass. To get higher with the low tech jet engines, you need rocket assist. - but they were talking about having two intakes/engine. Fighting oscillations. The Boeing X-37, also known as the Orbital Test Vehicle (OTV), is a reusable robotic spacecraft. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. http://www.youtube.com/user/Cruzanak?sub_confirmation=1Quicklinks to topics in this videoJet Engine Concepts: 0:30Air Intakes: 1:13Flameouts: 2:22Control Surfaces: 5:08Flying Tips: 5:57This video will go over everything that you need to know about to design a capable plane that can fly in the thinnest of atmospheres. Basically you just need to fiddle with it and try some test flights. I am currently designing a mission that will involve several very long distance plane flights. There is a very close tolerance to the two speeds. The maximum cruise altitude is just over 40,000 feet. a screenshot of kerbal space program 2. by: lord bird. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Don't be too surprised if KSP's aero model breaks down in edge cases. So the faster you go the higher you can fly where there is less drag. I checked the wiki before I wrote my question, it seems I overread this paragraph Something that I think has become less clear since someone updated the wiki. If not, please explain why, which I know you have no problem doing! rev2023.3.3.43278. But my guess is that these same general principles would probably apply to FAR, and that all that would change would be the numbers involved. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Hopefully this will be helpful to you. It may take some practice to hit your target area this way, because you'll be picking up additional horizontal speed, and thus it's possible to under or overshoot. I tried building a plane but can't climb higher than about 11,000m (I don't have many plane parts yet, though). First is thrust; the higher you get, the lower the thrust your engines deliver. So Pvt. You cannot paste images directly. Your link has been automatically embedded. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. if you just go into the SPH, slap together some parts like Legos, and go-- is to attach them with zero AoA. With the tanks disconnected that way, the rockets don't leach from the jets. As high and fast as you can go without engine flameout: preferably ~2000 m/s at 25-30 km (and yes, that's almost orbital velocity). This thread is quite old. . The Rapier, for example, works great as a high-altitude engine, precisely because it can go so fast. Here's Mr. Manley using it in his tutorial: @Pvt.Grichmann: I think it's at specific locations on Kerbin, not just anywhere above 18km. You get tons of thrust if you put it into "wet" mode, but you lose fuel efficiency. It's Kerbal Space Program v.22! I've added more engines, more intakes to no avail. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. - "In Space Low" means your craft is inside the "Space Border" altitude and in an orbital path. Ksp engine altitudes I've been trying my hand at some High altitude speedy planes for a while now, but can't seem to get a hang of the altitudes that each engine likes, I know kerbal isn't earth, so looking up the crushing altitude of say the sr71, doesn't seem to apply, but I was hoping that others experiences would help me. Planes in Space. From my observations I can say that "Efficiency" is not a good indicator of how well your engine performs. Thanks for asking this, I've been struggling with the same problem in career mode. Rockets aren t the only way to get to space. Did any DOS compatibility layers exist for any UNIX-like systems before DOS started to become outmoded? I didn't try for 20000m as it probably wouldn't do well. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. This way control surface max deflection can be programmed by an aircraft designer to make . As has been said, ISP is nothing to worry about. principle. All rights reserved. I don't have that other stuff yet. Aircraft can be very temperamental to fly, especially on the keyboard. Ep. At this point the plane plummets, but as it goes deeper into the atmosphere, it regains pitch authority, and at 10km it's enough to regain control and turn it around for a safe landing. That annoys me but I can't seem to get a design to make it work. To reach the initial low Earth orbit of the International Space Stationof 300 km (now 400 km), the delta-v is over six times higher, about 9.4 km/s. It's also worth noting that this engine has the widest thrust vectoring range of all of the jet engines, with a full 10-degree range in all directions. AoA itself refers to the angle of the wing (or the whole plane if the AoI is 0)relative to the airflow. If you've attached them to your fuselage with zero AoA, what that means is that when you fly, you're going to have to have the entire plane pitched slightly above in order to generate lift. Because when your engine has to take in air forcefully it automatically means there isn't enough surrounding your engine and that again means that air density and therefor air resistance must be pretty low too. Or you need to put a little bit of angle of incidence in your wings, which will reduce drag since you don't have to pitch the entire plane up, but will be stuck at a fixed angle meaning you'll have to pitch up or down anyway during certain phases of the flight that the plane isn't optimised for. If your using NEAR/FAR, once you get high and fast, kill the engine and glide to save fuel. Unfortunately I won't be able to test it today, but @SaintWacko's proposal sounds promising. Which makes this engine ideal for those missions which require doing many science activities above particular altitudes. The sweet spot for the upper atmo engines, I find, is between 10k and 12k. TLDR: You need parts you don't have to make a plane that flies that high. Cheers again fellas. Your airspeed is mostly limited by terminal velocity; you can go much faster if you climb a little higher. Have you checked out the wiki yet? The J-404 "Panther" Afterburning Turbofan is a jet engine added in version 1.0.5. *I use FAR these days, which basically means completely replacing every spaceplane and rocket you ever designed to account for its much more realistic aerodynamics. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. Additionally please know that .16 will feature new code that will change the way space planes work in every aspect. Building a rocket to fly vertical seems to be nearly impossible, in the atmosphere they tend to become unstable (or maybe I missed a trick?). Is anywhere a list of the altitude levels (I don't know a better term) available? The U-2 is probably the highest altitude aircraft still flying. A jet engine from KSP 0.18 A jet engine is an air-breathing engine which uses onboard liquid fuel and combusts it with the oxygen drawn from the atmosphere. Note that keeping the plane weight low is critical, only carry a very small amount of fuel. My 'plane science' is more advanced than my 'rocket science' (career mode) because I got tired of seeing all the high-altitude missions I had on the books and wanted to finish them. http://kerbalspaceprogram.com, Press J to jump to the feed. Trying to do something without the right part is long and difficult path. Just sounds like the engines can't get enough air, in KSP high speed also generates air intake so I'm guessing what is happening is that you have the initial speed to get to altitude but the lack of air at altitude is starving the engine resulting in lower speed which further reduces air intake and it cascades until either the engine shuts down or you return to denser atmosphere at a lower altitude. Which lets you go faster, which lets you climb higher. Paste as plain text instead, Why that? ksp high altitude planebad bunny tour 2022 tickets ksp high altitude plane. One problem is i'm running stock on career mode and only have 30 part to spare, so large planes are out of the question. Not only does it conk out at high altitudes, but also it conks out at high speeds, and you need to be able to go fast to fly up high. That will probably allow you to fly comfortably above 20-25km (or higher, depending on the overall mass of your aircraft). Can't remember where I saw/read about it - Scott Manley maybe? It is designed to aid in player-controlled flight on generic (space)plane, providing a soft layer between user joystick\keyboard input and control surface outputs. The easiest "default" way to build a plane in KSP-- i.e. At the equator, sea level temperatures vary between a nighttime low of 9 C and a daytime high of 15 C. Is there a single-word adjective for "having exceptionally strong moral principles"? I have enough patience to do the slow flying, but is it horribly inefficient? Since gravity is effectively lower, they don't need as much wing area to maintain altitude-- which, in turn, means less drag, which makes for more efficient flight. If you nudge your wing's angle up slightly with rotate tool then it'll move your prograde closer to your direction of flight and significantly reduce drag. Under some circumstances, you may want to reduce the engine gimbal range or disable it altogether, particularly when flying at high speeds (e.g. I got this game so I could over-engineer rockets, so I mostly ignore the airplanes. What are the units of measure used in Kerbal Space Program? You are just about at maximum speed and at the same time very close to stall speed. Isn't that backwards snark? You may be correct and that 3 engine plane is a lemon. But you'll need to unlock: High Altitude Flight Which cost 300 science. Use the reaction wheel to hold your attitude slightly nose down as you float down and you can guide yourself like a paraglider. I also set it to enable the cockpit's reaction wheels to improve control at high altitude, and close air intakes to reduce drag. Your engine burns the same amount of jetfuel per second regardless of how high or fast you are! Another approach, which I was managing with some success before I figured out jets, is to build a rocket and catapult yourself towards the measurement point. Welcome to the forums, ZDW. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. As long as the engine gets enough air it will work at proper efficiency. Ideally, you'll want to avoid these contracts until you get the High-Altitude Flight tech node and the improved jet engine that comes with it. Of course, this thing has very limited range, speed and acceleration because of the extra weight. How do you get out of a corner when plotting yourself into a corner. Something that I think has become less clear since someone updated the wiki. Upload or insert images from URL. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. When added to a plane it allows tuning of the controls vs speed/altitude/G load/other factors. With only panthers unlocked I might add. A little while back I spent a long time trying to circumnavigate Kerbin on the least liquid fuel possible (i posted the record to the sub: 254 units of fuel. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? Due to the lower air pressure at higher altitudes its thrust output decreases accordingly. But you'll need to unlock: Which cost 300 science. EDIT: Didn't notice you were using FAR. (Disclaimer: I've never used FAR myself; all of the above is based on my experience with stock aerodynamics. In my case, it brought me to 20km up at a 45-degree angle, but it is probably not optimal. Thanks. Privacy Policy. In the main KSP settings menu you should set the default throttle to 1.0 (technically the above mechjeb setting winds up restoring the default throttle, so it needs to be 1.0) In the attitude adjustment menu make sure you are using the "better controller" Whack the 45 degree phase margin button Whack the restore all other defaults button I started by attaching two LV-909 rocket engines to a regular low-atmosphere plane: In this save, I don't have custom action groups yet, so I'm using the RCS control to toggle between jet and rocket modes. The main body is a fuel tank with a Swivel engine at the end. You can do that by right-clicking the engine and clicking "Toggle Mode." . Or is it the same for all celestial bodies? Then it is "In Space Low over Mun.". Only the fuel tanks attached to rockets have any oxidiser in them. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. I'm in career mode and got all groups of the 45-science-cost level, except Flight Control, and additionally have Electrics, Heavy Rocketry and Fuel Systems. How can I make money in the new career mode? Incidentally, for these speeds and altitudes, ordinary jets are the better choice. Right now, my big, fat plane has trouble breaking 10 km altitude and 200 m/s forward speed (largely due to its payload). Arqade is a question and answer site for passionate videogamers on all platforms. 3x06: I design a new, high altitude, jet to collect high atmospheric science. 2/3 (KSP 1.11.2) - YouTube I break out the Mk2 parts and Panther engines to build a better jet that can go higher and faster. Subscribe -. That's all true, but just read the OP: hypersonic appears to be completely out of the question. If it's below the cross-hairs, you need a little more AoA. Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? If drag were the only concern, at any given altitude the slower you go, the less fuel you need: the work done by drag over a distance grows linearly with speed (the force grows quadratically with speed, but the time falls linearly). 1 1: The basics 2 2: Setting it up 3 3: First flight 4 4: Finishing touches 1: The basics First of all, you're going to need an airplane. How do I align things in the following tabular environment? Make sure you have lots of control surfaces because at very high in the atmosphere, there's not much air for the wings to control the craft with. - Inside the atmosphere works the same way, except you need to be on an suborbital trajectory. It seems to be based on the General Electric F-404 Afterburning Turbofan, which shares the same name and maximum thrust (85 kN dry). Delta-V is the velocity change necessary to perform orbital maneuvers. So I'm pretty darn new to KSP, and my career has barely gotten started, and the jobs for crew observations seem to dominate Make sure you've angled your wings up slightly so that you provide enough lift for a 0 angle of attack at top speed. Your previous content has been restored. Display as a link instead, KSP Quick Guides: High Altitude Design and Flying - Stock v.23 Stoober AK 3.32K subscribers Subscribe 21K views 8 years ago This tutorial will cover designing and flying a plane that can soar. A well-designed jet with this engine and with the afterburner lit, flown properly, can momentarily climb to 30,000 m altitude. Also, Valley and Theomon fly to different corners of Kerbin and three mapping satellites are launched. Subscribe - http://www.youtube.com/c/MikeAben?sub-confirmation=1 Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/MikeAbenPatreon supporters receive early, ad-free, access to videos, kOS and craft files, and more. Discord - https://discord.gg/HTvT7dZ Making Space Home Playlist - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB3Ia8aQsDKhqoFyoZ4d33MG7rS9KmDm_0:00 - Designing the Dudley Mk16:42 - Test Flights \u0026 Iterating13:45 - Col. Valley take the Seaplane to the Northern Ice Shelf19:30 - Launch \u0026 Insertion of the Maxwell Vb21:04 - Col. Theomon \u0026 Orlin Visit the Badlands in the Panther24:20 - Launch \u0026 Ejection of the Maxwell VI26:34 - Designing the SENTINEL 129:47 - Launch \u0026 Insertion of the Maxwell VIIFull List of Mods: Aviation Lights Chatterer Community Tech Tree Crew R\u0026R Croud Sourced Science Contract Configurator Contract Packs: Bases and Stations Reborn CommNet Relays Exploration Plus Field Research Kerbal Academy Tourism Plus Contracts Window+ Decoupler Shroud Easy Vessel Switch Kerbal Alarm Clock Kerbal Attachment System Kerbal Construction Time Kerbal Engineer Redux Kerbal Inventory System Kerbalism kOS KRASH Maneuver Node Evolved Navball Alignment Indicator Near Future Aeronautics Near Future Construction Near Future Electrical Near Future Propulsion Near Future Solar Near Future Spacecraft Persistent Rotation Rational Resources RCS Build Aid Continued Restock Restock+ SCANsat Scrapyard SMART Parts Stage Recovery Stockalike Station Parts Expansion Redux TAC Fuel Balancer Texture Replacer Trajectories Transfer Window Planner Universal Storage 2 Unkerballed Start Waypoint Manager It is usually best for initial designs to be based on logic and real-world physics and then be prepared to experiment with non-logical alternatives for optimisation. I don't have any exact numbers for you, but you can right-click an engine in flight and it will show both current and optimal airflow, which should hopefully let you work out the best altitude. Building a High Altitude Jet | Stream pt. The SR-71 could probably fly higher, but it isn't flying any more. Be sure to have enough intakes (I think maximum efficiency in stock is 1 ramjet intake per ~2 tons of plane, though that is aesthetically ridiculous), and if you're still running short of intake air, you can dip down a bit to speed up and get to denser air. Pvt. How to make a loop for linear actuator in Kerbal Space Program, Breaking Ground. From my experience using a panther it starts to lose speed after 15-16 kms, a more suitable cruising height is 9-13km. Well, this game isn't a perfect flight simulator yet, so it will be difficult to figure out. Imagine that first plane but with the bubble cockpit and the old style round intakes. How to know if you've nailed it perfectly: when you're cruising in level flight, you want the marker to be precisely centered in your navball cross-hairs. The second, Wet mode, uses the afterburner to produce thrust almost equal to the J-X4 "Whiplash" Turbo Ramjet Engine, but at a considerably reduced fuel efficiency. For comparison, the second most maneuverable engine is the CR-7 R.A.P.I.E.R. I currently have a contract where I'm asked to take crew reports at certain spots on Kerbal at an altitude of 18,000m. Paste as plain text instead, If the wings are flat and your plane steadily loses altitude in level flight at a given speed (as most designs will by default), it means you either need to pitch up slightly, increasing the angle of attack and keeping your vertical velocity at 0 by flying up slightly to compensate for the pull of gravity that lift isn't compensating for. A destructible memorial to the old Mk. This thread is quite old. Let me share what I know about jet engines, speed, and efficiency. You cannot paste images directly. Note that you need to activate the afterburner ("Wet Mode") manually. When I say ", You know you've nailed it correctly if, when you're in level flight, your. Be aware that heat buildup can gradually become a problem when the afterburners are used in sustained flight. I was even able to do this with three pairs of Junos instead of the large jet engine pair (I don't have the technology level for that). It is somewhat slow but very steady in flight. If you want to cover your aircraft with loads of intakes, I'm sure you could easily fly above 35km and reach 2000+ m/s velocity. So if you replace the turbos with basic jets, you will have more thrust from the ground up, and your vessel will weigh slightly less. KSP also tends to have very harsh induced drag if angle of attack gets too high. 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